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[luiz_iniciante]

Do any site members here know any foreigners who speak fluent, near-perfect Mandarin chinese? I only know one personally, though he longer lives in Hefei. I would be interested to know what approach they took i.e. what materials did they use? and which courses (if any did they take?

I am myself am approaching mid-level proficiency and can take part (haltingly) in a conversation, as long as the topic is not too arcance. But I'm finding it really difficult to get to that 80% level, at which life here starts becoming easy. Any advice?

[luiz_iniciante]

Thanks for your tips. To them I would add: listen to the radio as much as possible. There are many talk shows which one can leave on in the background while working; the hosts usually speak good 普通话 and usually use many current expressions that are unlikely to be found in a text book.

[Andy Woo]

Most of my students are puzzled and ask me the same question. The ways you guys suggested were so constructive. And I would like to add a little bit.

1. For an intermediate Chinese learner, he or she must have learnt thousands of Chinese words. But there is still one problem that he or she could only understand maybe 50-60% of daily Chinese conversations, for some words we talk with are not written and you have to immerse yourself into the true life to get to know them. For example, in the textbook we learnt: "Ni3 zai4 zuo4 shen2me?"(What are you doing?) But actually, most Chinese would say "Ni3 zai4 gan4 ma2 ?". An experienced Chinese teacher would let the students know about the actual words we talk with in daily life. Hefei is much better to learn Chinese than that of Shanghai at this point. Because the local people have to try to talk with expats in Chinese in Hefei while their English are so good in Shanghai that expats have no chance to practice their Chinese.
You may talk to local Chinese. Even better to have a Chinese girlfriend whose English are not so good and talk to her in Chinese all the time. For instance, Nicolas was my student whose Chinese is unbelievable now. He began to work in a Chinese company last year. He enjoys talking to Chinese people and has a Chinese girlfriend. You may visit his Weibo at : http://weibo.com/u/1888910943  or ask him about his tips on how to improve your Chinese.

2. For an intermediate Chinese learner, it becomes badly necessary for you to learn Chinese characters and you need to expand your vocabulary based on "characters" not "words”. It is a perfect phase for you to review and learn something new through analyzing the characters you have learned. What is the meaning of the character and what frequently used words it comes from. For example, "自zi4" means "self", and we have "自己zi4ji3"(self),"自信zi4xin4"(self-believe, confident),"自大zi4da4"(self-big, arrogant), "自来水zi4lai2shui4"(self-come-water, tap water). In this way, you will have a better comprehension in Chinese words and expand your vocabulary more easily since Chinese words are more logical than English at this point.

Hopefully, it is helpful for you guys.

[Andy Woo]

Hi Tim!

A linguistic term "Language Power Struggle" is perfectly suitable for your situation. I posted an article on how to cope with language power struggle on this forum long time ago.

True, your students, your friends or even you wife can speak perfect Chinese. But they won’t talk to you in Chinese. Naturally, two people speak different languages will choose one language they can talk relatively more freely. English would be your natural choice because you are a beginner in Chinese learning. And that's the difference between a Chinese who can speak English and a Chinese teacher. A Chinese teacher should try his/her best to talk to you in Chinese, to help you think in Chinese way more than a translator. I had a student from Netherlands who learnt Chinese so hard because he was afraid that one day his twins would speak Chinese to others but he don’t know what they are talking about. His Chinese is so good now. Don’t worry! As your Chinese is getting better, they will all talk to you in Chinese naturally.

[Andy72]

language doesn't always give people a chance for a more comfortable living . it what or how you promote yourself.

I can only partly agree with this: if you look for a job in a company and you do not have your own business, especially if your business has nothing to do with languages (i am an engineer, worked 2.5 years in Hefei in full chinese company, now in Longgang, again in chinese factory!).

in china knowing chinese can change "your quality of life at work", if you understand what i mean!

my chinese is basic, i usually say i do not speak chinese because it is closer to the truth, so the only way i have to communicate technically in the everyday life is by QQ (now as before, even if before people were a little more able to speak english -- more modern company): i write in english, they translate, they write, i translate..

so if you are working for a chinese company, chinese is almost a necessity.. unless you are used to deal with frustration, like i am.. 

[luiz_iniciante]

I agree with Andy 100%. Whether or not one becomes perfectly fluent in mandarin, chinese nationals know that the language is difficult and will appreciate the efforts of those who make an effort to learn: one has only to compare the measure of respect and friendliness generally shown fluent non-native speakers to the perfectly comprehensible frustration the 市民 feel when having to deal with someone whom they cannot even speak to properly.

At the very least, it is a matter of common courtesy to spend a few hours a week learning written and spoken chinese. I have little patience for foriegners who have been here for years and still cannot make out the characters on a restaurant menu. I imagine the citizenry must have even less.

[Aussie Mike]

I won't take that as an insult. 

The only Chinese I know is survival Chinese.
I can order food but can't read the menu.
I can travel around China on my own but I can't have a conversation.

In my job, I don't let students use Chinese, they must use English.
In my social life, everyone wants me to speak English.

When I paid people to teach me Chinese, I ended up paying them to learn English. 

[luiz_iniciante]

I agree with 大枪 when he says that speaking good Chinese is not the overriding factor when it comes to winning a place in society, and, as elsewhere, respect for common values is at least as important... except to say that literacy is a value in China. A simple example would be that people are judged by their handwriting here in a way that they are not in the west. It generally makes no difference to us whether Napolean could not spell or Washington's handwriting was poor, but I have often heard people comment casually on the handwriting of those they admire, from celebrities to historical figures.

Depending on how much you care about the opinion of others, it may be worth spending some time on these small things: from the chengyu to being able to write down your order at a restaurant. It often happens that you together with your co-workers to have dinner, and then one or two people are designated to order. It makes a big difference if that person is you and you can actually step up to the plate.

I don't entirely buy the argument that 合肥话 is an obstacle to learning good 普通话. It seems to me a generational thing, in that the only people I've really struggled to understand are indeed elderly taxi drivers who may speak entirely in the local dialect. Even with those who are less well-educated, however, I find that it is blended with enough mandarin, that I can still hold a conversation. And if you speak good 普通话 you will generally be understood, which is the perhaps the most important thing. I would actually cite laziness and a lack of motivation as the main reason why foreigners (myself included) do not go as far as they could in learning the language.