Hefei Expat - China
The World => News and Opinion => Topic started by: rae on October 17, 2010, 03:40:23 am
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those ppl who awarded this very chinese Liu Xiaobo, who can tell me what those ppl want?! ??? Christ, thats insulting!
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Anyone that wishes peace, happiness, freedom of speech, etc, should be honoured, especially fighting against great odds. My hat off to him.
Naturally any news in China will speak of this man as "the devil" or "against China". How can someone be against China yet care about China so much? Welcome to Chinese media propaganda. It ensnared you, and a whole other bunch of people.
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confused me more now, he is in the prison. probably we should look at both sides, chinese's and other countries' views. i will check the english then. the chinese news said The nobel association is sort of challenging sth. of china. Dse every country around the world do the same sort of thing to his ppl
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Nobel price is in good hands. :) Chinese media should inform more about people like Liu Xiaobo and chinese people should be proud of him .Sad that people in China are not informed well. :(
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Same kind of debate occured in 1993 when Nelson Mandella (http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1993/) was nominated.
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1993/
Facts on the Nobel Peace Prize
On 27 November 1895, Alfred Nobel signed his last will and testament, giving the largest share of his fortune to a series of prizes, the Nobel Prizes. As described in Nobel's will, one part was dedicated to "the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".
Learn more about the Nobel Peace Prize from 1901 to 2010. (http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/shortfacts.html)
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@Rae, there is a reason he is in prison, and being in prison in China isn't always as black and white as it may seem. Just think, someone in North Korea stands up and says, "I hate Kim Jong Il, and I wish we had a democracy", I wish we can get him out of office because he is running the country down to the ground". Do you think that person would be jailed, and if so, do you think it would be the correct thing to do? Sure that person would be thrown in prison, saying it violates the "laws of the land", but that is gov. talk for "STFU, we run this country, and you all live as we say, otherwise off to jail you go". So even though he "broke the law", I think you can see it wasn't fair at all.
Now, to this situation, from what I know, all this guy wants is to have freedom for Chinese people, and a list of other things. All the stuff on there is peaceful, and to my knowledge, breaking China apart or whatever isn't on his agenda. So clearly, I can not see what the heck is wrong with this, unless you are afraid to loosen your grip on power, which is what's happening here. Why do you think people wage wars in this world, in most part to keep their power, whether it be global, or in their own country. It's fairly simple to see. So, to be honest, it has nothing to do with the Nobel prize as the issue, there is a more underlying issue that the Chinese leaders have to come to grips with. Nobel prize just put things into the spotlight a bit more.
Just compare:
Canada - no internet censorship
China - internet censorship out the wahoo (Facebook, Twitter, etc)
Do you honestly think that Facebook is a terrorist organization waiting to wreak havoc on Chinese people? So, why the ban on it? It's called, controlling information, and in the bigger picture, controlling people, to hold on to power. Again, it's fairly easy to see.
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@Rae, there is a reason he is in prison, and being in prison in China isn't always as black and white as it may seem. Just think, someone in North Korea stands up and says, "I hate Kim Jong Il, and I wish we had a democracy", I wish we can get him out of office because he is running the country down to the ground". Do you think that person would be jailed, and if so, do you think it would be the correct thing to do? Sure that person would be thrown in prison, saying it violates the "laws of the land", but that is gov. talk for "STFU, we run this country, and you all live as we say, otherwise off to jail you go". So even though he "broke the law", I think you can see it wasn't fair at all.
Now, to this situation, from what I know, all this guy wants is to have freedom for Chinese people, and a list of other things. All the stuff on there is peaceful, and to my knowledge, breaking China apart or whatever isn't on his agenda. So clearly, I can not see what the heck is wrong with this, unless you are afraid to loosen your grip on power, which is what's happening here. Why do you think people wage wars in this world, in most part to keep their power, whether it be global, or in their own country. It's fairly simple to see. So, to be honest, it has nothing to do with the Nobel prize as the issue, there is a more underlying issue that the Chinese leaders have to come to grips with. Nobel prize just put things into the spotlight a bit more.
Just compare:
Canada - no internet censorship
China - internet censorship out the wahoo (Facebook, Twitter, etc)
Do you honestly think that Facebook is a terrorist organization waiting to wreak havoc on Chinese people? So, why the ban on it? It's called, controlling information, and in the bigger picture, controlling people, to hold on to power. Again, it's fairly easy to see.
I kind of wish that the forum have "Like" feature like facebook.
I like this post. They block youtube too ><
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The opinins of Chinese who live outside China are often different to those who have only lived in China, they usually change their views within a fairly short time as they can access information on both sides of the arguements.
We foreigners have a saying in China, "the only news YOU hear is good news", or rather good news for the government. Much of the news from China that you can find around the world is not allowed to be published in Chinese.
Did you know there have been many protests around China regarding the Japanese island issue and to free LXB. None of these were violent protests, the police were there but none of it was reported in Chinese language as protests are not encouraged.
Find out more by searching in English, not Chinese.
Liu Xiaobo Inspiring Communists Toward Free Speech
By ThirdAge News Staff Posted October 15, 2010 9:55 AM.
Liu Xiaobo, the recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Price, has been languising inside of a Chinese prison for two years because of a letter he'd written called Charter 08. In the letter, Xiaobo called for the Chinese government to put an end to censorship. Now it seems Xiaobo's position is gaining ground.
Retired Communist Party heavyweights in China have confirmed they published a strongly-worded letter calling on the government to abolish censorship.
The letter -- composed by, among others, a former secretary to Mao Zedong and an ex-publisher of the People's Daily newspaper -- began circulating almost like a petition Oct. 1, the Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday.
Chinese observers speculate the letter, sent via Internet, will not be suppressed easily because of how important the signers were in the Communist Party.
"These are important people who signed the letter with their names, titles and locations, requesting freedom of expression," Li Datong, a retired editor from the Communist Youth Daily who is friends with the organizers, said this week. "Clearly, they are not afraid. The trend cannot be stopped."
"When our country was founded in 1949, our people cried out that they had been liberated, that they were now their own masters," the letter states. "But even today, 61 years after the founding of our nation, after 30 years of opening and reform, we have not yet attained the freedom of speech and press to the degree enjoyed by the people of Hong Kong under colonial rule.
"Not only the average citizen, but even the most senior leaders of the Communist Party, have no freedom of speech," the letter continued.
..
Read more: http://www.thirdage.com/news/liu-xiaobo-inspiring-communists-toward-free-speech_10-15-2010#ixzz12dPXMynA
By the way, I stand or responsible freedom of speech.
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Nobel peace prize from who? and to who?...On what basis has the credibility of the Nobel Peace committee surpass that of a sovereign authority. How many nationalities form and include as members of the committee?? is there any Chinese.....why not??
Come to think of it, has there ever been a noble laureate in a science discipline from china?? but i tell u what go check your notes, Chinese dissidents have been awarded noble prizes within the science discipline. So is it all about nationality rather than materialism?
How political has the Nobel peace committee become...Barely few months after Barrack took office, he was surprisingly wake up an awarded one. How political is this
I do not have much inside about the whats and hows around China but I ll bet my last coin that the Nobel prize committee is more political than the white house...So lets beat it
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Here are some links you may be interested in.
A biography
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/world/09nobel.html
Why Mahatma Gandi didn't receive a Nobel Peace Prize.
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/articles/gandhi/index.html
Mother Teresa
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html
Australia's first saint - Mary MacKillop officially declared a saint
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/17/3040558.htm
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Yeah Mike,I went through the notes suggested and found interest in this line
Up to 1960, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded almost exclusively to Europeans and Americans. "In retrospect, the horizon of the Norwegian Nobel Committee may seem too narrow. "
Now just one doubt,How much has the horizon of this committee expanded within the years,Maybe you can de-brief me more on this question
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My view it that they are aware todays international laws focus on anti-discrimination.
For the sake of peace they can't be seen as racist.
Reflect on the pre-war culture of the Norwegan regions.
Royalistic, aristocratic...
Now reflect on what was happening in the 1960's.
Hippy, Peace, Love the World, Conflict. Peace between Black and White, Anti-apartide.
Nobel Peace Prizes have often been foresighted.
Their horizions have broadened enough to include another real hero.
I have to agree Obama has not earnt it yet, but he is the first black American president.
That in itself is a symbol of peace.
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i think that the most interesting part of this post is the view of Chinese people in China, when they are not spending much tiem reading international news..
i would be more interested in more comments from locals..
instead on a debat about how political is becoming the prize itself.. or controversial.. but more than the white house? not that difficult.. i don't think the female members go down on the male ones in the nobel committee.. in the white house, on the other hand... ;D
it is also not the first time that the prize is awarded to a person in prison, that therefore cannot receive it..
the prize itself does not demand anything to chinese country, in political way, so it is actually not interferring with the sovereign authority!! i do not see your point there!
i am usually more interested, for my education, in the physics awards, and sometimes you read of prizes given to people that in their home countries are considered average or less in their field.. so, what shoudl they do? burn their research? extreme comparison.. but still..
hope some other local chinese will add some comments!
cheers
andy
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I waiting for Rae's response ;D
Hey Andy
Did you notice the new rankings?
No, Jr. Member any more.
Apologies for the deleted post. It was by mistake, I realised as soon as the delete was permanent.
I've been thinning out posts of non-active useless posts, when I realised yours was active and useful.
Too late. I'm sure it was the only one though.
Again, very sorry.
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Hey Andy,
You seem to refute any assimilation between the nobel peace prize, sovereignty and politics, here you surprise me. Again you say the prize itself does not demand anything to Chinese country, in political way, so it is actually not interfering with the sovereign authority!!
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Are you really serious???If your point is true, then what really is the raison d’etre of the nobel peace prize..Is it just about the 10,000SEK,OR the title embedded to it.
Nah I don't think so.
It's 100% and absolutely intended to affect and influence the functionality , norms and ideals of a system .It is absolutely a political prize, maybe not for the science discipline but this one in question is.As Mike said,Obama was given one,not cos he deserved it but cos that can greatly help him in his job as an influential world political leader.What's more, doesnt China,at this time deserve the award for its massive contribution in redeeming the messed stereotype world economy??Why not look at it from that angle????As far as I now,there can be no peace without a strong economy.China deserves a Nobel Peace prize.
Now how did the Chinese authorities react to the announcement??? Was it a question of sovereignty.Maybe we should start with a clear definition of that term.......
oh man, the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE is the highest messed up political prize there is.Go ask Obama
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i know what it is "intended" to be, Hills..
but i try to be very realist on this point..
at the end, i think that it means veyr little nowadays the nobel prize, as many others world recognition for people fighting human right's battles..
and i see this as a sad development of life..
please, don' think i am a naive little girl (any reference to Rae is.. ok, she is also cute! ;) )..
but i have been around a bit to see that the nobel prize will make mess for a couple of weeks.. and then nobody will talk about that anymore..
btw, except for us discussing about it now, the newspapers i read (italian and english) do not mention much anymore..
am i wrong?
have a nice day!
andy
PS mike, thx i did not noticed!!!
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..forgot to mention that i really look forward to the day that a nobel in ECONOMY will be awarded to china!
seriously!
i hope that will come before china will smash eurpean economy completely..
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Peace: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace)
This doesn't include "economic peace", as that doesn't really exist. As the definition states, it's about state of mind or state of being. Peace usually is referred to as absence of war, so Hills, I am not sure why you tied in China's economic growth to this word, peace. Peace also is closely related to freedom, and in China, there is a certain amount of suppression going on, so this automatically would eliminate China from any chance of receiving this "peace" prize.
BTW, I also agree that Obama's award might not have been merited. It's a toss up to some.
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ops, sorry, i might have been misunderstood..
but i was taking up the comment from Hills about the Chinese economical growth and international market impact, referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Economics) - Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences
and just for discussion, i wonder what Hills thought when the prize was assigned to Arafat, Al Gore, Gorbacev (just an year after Dalai Lama.. but at that time no Hefei Expat forum.. ;D )
i would like to add that Norwegians have still a quite naive and "innocent" and out-of-the-world idea of being completely neutral in the world politics, and very often to be super partes in their decisions. and to be also on the right side! (that's why innocent is between "")
i lived in Norway 15 years! i am quite competent about this argument, not from what i have heard, but from one third of my life experience as an adult..
with this i mean that you could put the political facts in front of the committee face and have them pass a lie detector swearing they did not made their choice from a political ponit of view..
but we both know that is is slightly different ;)
andy
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Example sentences of the word peace as from the suggested site http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace
"Insurance can provide you with peace of mind."
"After years of therapy, he has finally achieved an inner peace."
True enough Peace is a state of mind but that shouldn’t be mistaken for the absence of war or social chaos. From the above two sentences,can we conclude that the economy is the biggest insurance of peace????The state of one's stomach greatly influences his decisions and actions.The policy of Economocracy is the one ideal to which the layouts of global peace is based upon.No need mentioning to you that the most devastated and warlike regions in the world are amognst the highest poverty stricken countries
What are usually the main demands of an upset group???
-We need this ,our people want that...isn't it.
-We want our voices to be heard so OUR PROPLE CAN EAT .
I m in no way justifying china's civil liberty system but just saying.. truly some things are bigger than others and the nobel committee should be smart about that. Even the common man can guess better,I don’t think the award had a peace banner behind its agenda. .
China has and its playing a great role,all jokes aside. Of course it got its flaws...but Man ,lets not even start a reflection on democratic norms and its woes.
shalom
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My father told me when I was a lad that;
"True communism is a fair world to live in but human greed will always prevent true communism from working."
Greed seems to be the governing factor in evey country, culture and society.
As I always say "People are people they are influenced by culture, experience and knowledge."
I'll look at the issues with linking some aid care organisations from this site.
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driven by my usual pessimistic view..
i'd like to add to what Mike said..
..people are people.. often influenced by money......
sad but true...
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that is a hell lot for me to read here at one time. in 1989, the DaLai in tibet awarded Nobel peace prize, i dont care about what the chinese gov think of Dalai, but the Dalai r really a viloent nation, they may standing out for their rights, but they cant just ignore and risk other ppl's life. im fighting for my rights all my life, u do as well, plus we dont hurt any others safty, so do we own the peace prize?
they may helped the students to stand up for the freedom revolution indirectly, but with those violence, they dont deserve the prize. yet from the Norway nobel Org: Dalai's peace prize is a punishment to beijing gov, because they killed the revolution which is for the real freedom. to this point, i agree with hills that Nobel Prize is very political. And china dose take it as a serious political stuff, now its not hard for u to read this" Dalai and LIU Xiaobo r two politic trophies of western contries" in a chinese media.
it was such a coincidence that suprised me: liu xiaobo was the one helped lots of students out of death in that revolution, i didnt know this, and i regret that im not a news fan and said this prize is insulting, i take it back. t
he bad side of the free human right that he is calling for is just too much for him to suffer, its not that we dont know about real freedom, its likely we still havent realise that we have to fight for the rights, most of us r only satisfied by what we have now, everythingelse is not our business any more. i have a QQ friend wrote"this Nobe peacel prize is a rat shit among all of the nobel prizes", seems every thing happened in china is at least half covered up :(, this makes me think a lot about the traditional dynasties, they kill ppl who announce total freedom and burn the books just to control their ppl through spirit. internet cenorship is to kill the way to the outside china world then. I dont feel good about what i think now. to a degree, now i hope that to be not informed can solve the problem, too sad it wont. its such a big price to pay, there is no such thing called freedom and real liberty all around the world, and sadly those two have becom a weapon for all the countries to attack and pick on each other. i guess if u want be real free, u have to stay away from politics, only be the king of ur own land. Those ppl who stands for human rights maybe only can be accepted when the country is in a hard time. i feel sorry .
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The one good thing that has come from this message thread is discussion about the Nobel peace prize, and just people's general thoughts about it. This is good. So, why does China discourage people from open discussion about things, by censorship? Again, it's all about control, and they are afraid to lose power. Simple as that. I also agree the Nobel prize is political, heck, everything is political. North Korea uses it, Iran uses it, and so on. As long as their is media, "playing the political" card will always be there.
So, in my mind, the true point that troubles me is China's reluctance to debate about issues, and this Nobel prize kind of topped it off for me. As I read somewhere in an article, China is missing a huge chance with this Nobel prize, to change for the better, to really open up discussion and thoughts, not just "feed" people information with all the darn channels the same come news time. Ever notice that? All the channels, around 6:00pm or so, ALL showing the news, in unison. THAT is where my beef probably lies, not with this Nobel prize, or what the prize stands for.
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China Assails Nobel Peace Prize as ‘Card’ of West
By MICHAEL WINES
Published: November 5, 2010
BEIJING — Accelerating its assault on the award of the Nobel Peace Prize to the Chinese dissident, China denounced the prize on Friday as a political tool of the West, and an official warned that countries acknowledging the honor would “bear the consequences.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/world/asia/06nobel.html?src=mv&ref=world (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/world/asia/06nobel.html?src=mv&ref=world)
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Suu Kyi appeals for unity in Burma
By Hla Hla Htay, AAP November 14, 2010, 11:02 pm
Yahoo.com news (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/8314593/suu-kyi-appeals-for-unity-in-burma/)
Burma s pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi aims to rally supporters on her first day of freedom.
Democracy icon Aung San Suu Kyi has reached out to Burma's splintered opposition forces, calling on thousands of exuberant supporters to unite following her release from house arrest.
"Please keep your energy for us. If we work together we will reach our goal," she told a sea of followers outside her party headquarters on Sunday, suggesting years of isolation have not weakened her defiant stance against military rule.
"I want to work with all democratic forces," said the 65-year-old Nobel Peace Prize winner, who has been locked up by Burma's ruling generals for 15 of the past 21 years.
"I believe in human rights and I believe in the rule of law," she added.
Full story here (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/8314593/suu-kyi-appeals-for-unity-in-burma/)
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To the best of my understanding this Nobel peace prize thing, there has never before been such a furious anti-Nobel campaign, to the extent of sendiing a strong threatening letter to countires, ambassadors, diplomats in row not to attend the ceremony. It's really amazing what the world is turning into.This Nobel award isn't the first kind to be awarded to people like Liu. From history recipients of the honour have been absent in the past. 1. The most recent was the Burmese opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who was released from house arrest last week. When she was named the Nobel laureate in 1991, her son Alexander Aris gave the acceptance speech on her behalf.
2.During the Cold War the Polish labour leader Lech Walesa was not allowed out to collect the honour, but his wife was permitted to travel to Oslo to accept it on behalf of her husband in 1983.
3.When the Russian physicist Andrei D Sakharov won it in 1975 the Soviet authorities gave permission for his wife, too, to collect the prize.
4.Even in 1936, when the winner, Count Carl von Ossietzky, a German journalist who had been held in Nazi concentration camps, was refused a passport to travel to Oslo, the prize money, if not the award itself, was collected by his lawyer – who was later jailed for embezzling it. Well, just like 'Rae' said if u really want freedom, u have to stay away from politics.
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Chinese answer to Oslo..
I wonder if you have heard of this:
Confucius Peace Prize
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize)
:o
a good friend told me about that, when mostly of my Chinese friends have never heard of it... like the guy that got the prize!!!
let's take it with a smile! ;D