Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[djlpio]

Hi everyone again,

As i have said in my previous post, i will be coming to Hefei next month to start working. I also have an American friend and Vietnamese friend that should be joining me as well, but there was some hiccups in their applications for Visa Z. They are unable to provide their university degrees at this time and would want to apply for the Visa Z without it. As we are not working in education, and will be working for a fitness brand, the degree should not be an issue should it?

I was wondering if there were any agencies in Hefei that would be able to help with the work visa and work permit as this is the first time this company has hired foreigners so they are a little bit unsure/slow with the processes.

Thanks,
Jeffrey

[x0vash0x]

Hi everyone again,

As i have said in my previous post, i will be coming to Hefei next month to start working. I also have an American friend and Vietnamese friend that should be joining me as well, but there was some hiccups in their applications for Visa Z. They are unable to provide their university degrees at this time and would want to apply for the Visa Z without it. As we are not working in education, and will be working for a fitness brand, the degree should not be an issue should it?

I was wondering if there were any agencies in Hefei that would be able to help with the work visa and work permit as this is the first time this company has hired foreigners so they are a little bit unsure/slow with the processes.

Thanks,
Jeffrey

You need a letter of invitation before you can apply for the Z-Visa. Here's a link to the Visa Application:http://www.china-embassy.org/chn/lszj/bgxz/P020130830121570742708.pdf

You can find all the relevant information here: http://english.gov.cn/services/workinchina/

Generally speaking, you need to show that you "(2) Possessing professional skills and job experience required for the intended employment" which typically means a degree or other type of certification. Almost always they like to have a copy of the degree along with a resume.

The company just needs to go to the Entry-Exit and talk to someone. Is the company expecting you to handle the visa stuff yourself? If so... I'd be very, very, cautious. This is a huge red flag. There are agencies in Hefei, but it should be the responsibility of the company you're going to work for to find these agencies. You really shouldn't have to do anything other than just provide them the necessary documents.

[djlpio]

Thanks for the reply x0vash0x.

Just wanted to see if there was any local agencies in Hefei that would be able to walk through the steps with this company as i mentioned before that this is the first time they are hiring a foreigner.
My friend would not be able to get university diploma until October so we were just wondering if it was possible for the company to get the Alient Employment Permit without the university credentials.
Would you be able to direct me to an agency so i could pass the information along to this company? We would like to try and get this sorted out asap.

Thank you so much

[x0vash0x]

I don't know of any agencies, but most businesses that I've deal with don't go through agencies. The best bet is for the company that wants to hire you to talk directly with the Entry-Exit Bureau of Hefei. They're the ones who will process your documents, and they only ones who will be able to tell you if you can get the Alien Employment Permit.

Again, best if the company talks directly with the local government and Entry-Exit department. This is how most businesses (and individuals) in Hefei deal with these types of issues. Typically, the business has a Chinese person tasked with getting foreigners Visas and it is this person's job to figure out if you can get an Alien Employment Permit without university credentials. Most businesses call this a 'Foreign Liaison' or something similar.

A smart move would be to tell the company that you're going to work for that they really need to create and hire someone for this position ASAP. Because, really, you need someone who works for the company that has a vested interested in getting you here to do all of this for you.

I do know of individuals who would probably be willing to help your company for the right price. These people work for other companies and might be willing to do freelance or contract work.

[bao luo]

I agree with x0vash0x, but I'll be more blunt. I definitely wouldn't take this job if I were you. It's a prime scenario for stress, inconvenience and cost blowout for you and your buddies. Take it from folks who have experience in China.

[Aussie Mike]

I suggest you get you school to contact this lawyer, John.
He is very familiar with the visa processing in Hefei.

[email protected]  13966675102

He can definitely assist.

[djlpio]

Thanks guys. Let me try to get in touch with John.

As I have mentioned before, the company is not a school and we are not going there for teaching job. We will be working for a fitness company for sales/marketing, so it made sense to me that relevant experience would be more applicable than uni degree.
But maybe its just China and their regulations....

[x0vash0x]

Thanks guys. Let me try to get in touch with John.

As I have mentioned before, the company is not a school and we are not going there for teaching job. We will be working for a fitness company for sales/marketing, so it made sense to me that relevant experience would be more applicable than uni degree.
But maybe its just China and their regulations....

It's China and their regulations. You need to prove that you possess the relevant qualifications to be employed in China. It makes me nervous that you keep saying 'me' in terms of figuring this out. This is a huge, huge, huge, red flag. The onus is on the company to figure this out, not you.

It's great if you feel its your responsibility, or that its your obligation to the company, but really, you're doing free work. Especially if this is a Chinese company, they're betting on getting free work from you.

If you want to point the company in the right direction, I think that's a fair compromise. But, I wouldn't go beyond getting agency/lawyer in contact with the company you want to work for. If the company puts the responsibility on you to get your visa and figure this out for them, know that this is extremely, extremely rare and a sign of something fishy.

Now, it could end up being all good. And I hope it is. But, let's just say its much more common for people to get burned, and burned hard, by these situations than for them to turn out alright in the end. So, hedge your risk and time involvement, is all I'd suggest. It's not your job nor responsibility to be the middleman. If they company really values you and wants you, then they'll make sure you get there. If the company isn't even willing to figure out how to get you here, it's a good sign of how the company is going to treat you once you get here.

And, really, what company will you be working for? You said a 'fitness company' but could you give a name? Is it foreign, Chinese? What will you be doing? I'm curious if there are any foreigners in this company that you could contact directly as well. Or maybe someone on this forum knows the company and could help you as well.

Also, there's a semi-legal way to work in China if you go through Hong Kong first. This is typically a backup plan for these who can't get a Z Visa and is used by less reputable organizations, but its a solution to the problem your friend faces.

[bao luo]

I can almost guarantee this kind of "sales/marketing" job in the fitness industry, i.e., a pop-up gym, will be nothing more than a "face job", where you will be required to do menial type promo work or modeling and just mill around the gym so that potential customers can see your foreign faces. Having this kind of "international" facade is valuable to attract clueless new customers. It will not require any level of tertiary skill, expertise, experience or qualification whatsoever. Chinese wouldn't entrust any real marketing or advertising responsibility to foreign fly-in employees anyway. This industry attracts the flightiest/lowest level of Chinese boss and administration.; so don't be surprised if you get majorly dicked around.

As I said before, this is a juicy scenario for you to find yourself badly inconvenienced by low-level clowns who don't know what they're doing and who will ditch you at a moment's notice and leave you high and dry.

Good luck to you, sir.

[Aussie Mike]

John Wang the lawyer has just represented the first Foreigner Labour Law case in AnHui this week with a favourable outcome for the foreigner.

What more can I say, I strongly suggest you get him to arrange the visa documents for you for complete peace of mind.

[x0vash0x]

John Wang the lawyer has just represented the first Foreigner Labour Law case in AnHui this week with a favourable outcome for the foreigner.

What more can I say, I strongly suggest you get him to arrange the visa documents for you for complete peace of mind.

Subtle point, but the COMPANY should get John to arrange the visa documents for djlpio. Unless you're self employed in China, it is the responsibility of the company that hires you to obtain visa and all necessary legal documents. Foreigners should be weary of any company that doesn't take the responsibility or initiative to get them here.

[Aussie Mike]

It was implied from content of replies to previous posts. 

YOU as in the gent may wish to pass the information on to the employer.

[bao luo]

I'm all for legal support for foreigners working in Hefei. But you gotta ask yourself the question: If this employer in a low-level industry can't organize himself to do the preliminaries to hire foreigner, and he has to bother the said clueless foreigner with stuff that's the employer's responsibility, then you shouldn't be considering a job with them in the first place, let alone waste your time on a lawyer to deal with it. By doing so, you are giving face to people who definitely don't deserve it.

[Aussie Mike]

True, however the process of employing foreigners is daunting and most businesses don't have much of a clue.
I'd definitely be wanting to have a reliable legal representative at the company's cost.

[x0vash0x]

True, however the process of employing foreigners is daunting and most businesses don't have much of a clue.
I'd definitely be wanting to have a reliable legal representative at the company's cost.

So, it actually isn't that daunting. The problem is that most foreigners don't know the process, and the quality of Chinese tasked with this undertaking is hit or miss. For example, our 'Foreign Liaison' had to ask me whether California and Washington were close enough that the people could carpool to the Chinese Consulate together. It's little things like these that can leave a nasty impression in foreigners mouths even before they step foot in China.

Then, even when you're here, foreigners are usually left out of the loop regarding what they need to look out for. Such as your passport needs to have at least one year left for a residency permit to be granted. If your passport will expire in less than a year, you cannot get a residency permit.

But the actual process isn't that difficult, and takes a few hours of paperwork effort on the part of the local Chinese employee (and lots of waiting for administrative processing). It's all very routine, if you know what you're doing. Which is why this company doesn't need a lawyer, it just needs someone whose done this before to what them what to do. But, a lawyer is much more competent at times. And like you said, you can almost definitely trust the quality of a lawyer.

And really, the most difficult step is getting Permit for Foreign Experts (Foreign Experts Certificate) issued by the State Bureau of Foreign Experts of the PRC, which is exactly the issue that djlpio is having. Once you have that, the rest is straight forward. And I know they're cracking down, at least for teachers. A girl from Argentina was refused a Foreign Experts Certificate on the ground that despite her outstanding resume and qualifications, she's not a native of an English speaking country and she didn't graduate from an English speaking university.

TL;DR - Someone should make a flowchart of the process to get a Z-Visa.