Hefei Expat - China

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Professionals in Hefei
Business Network Group
Entrepeneurs and all professionals.
professionals.inhefei.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Where to unpack in Hefei..  (Read 14772 times)

ninja8rabbit

  • Guest
Where to unpack in Hefei..
« on: June 07, 2015, 09:57:42 pm »

Trying to sort a good spot to unpack my bags once I arrive in Hefei mid-August.  The new job has me at Hefei Univ. of Technology.  I won't have a car.  In a perfect world I'd be in stones throw to a park for some morning/evening exercise and options of watering holes for a beer after.  Close to shopping, gym/yoga, restaurant, maybe even an art store.  Again - perfect world.
I don't mind walking to work but rather not break a sweat.  Be great to find a 1bd-2bd/lvng rm/full bath/kitchen (no studio for under 1200rmb) near all that I just mentioned. 

So now... back to reality.  Thoughts..?
Logged

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 11:02:30 pm »

Does your school not provide housing? Or looking for something that better suits you?

Edit: I would look here http://hf.58.com/chuzu/

HF.58 is basically Craig's List. Most of the rental listings ask you to contact a relator directly. But be careful, there is no guarantee that the pictures posted are even remotely close to the apartmartment. Chinese relators are notorious for saying 'Oh! We just rented that apartment, but we have a very similar apartment!'  ::)

At the very least, you can use it to get an idea of prices and quality of housing.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 11:41:01 pm by x0vash0x »
Logged

ninja8rabbit

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 05:51:34 pm »

No accommodation provided - just a 2000rmb allowance. 

Just curious if there's a "hip" neighbourhood that foreigners seem to enjoy living in?
Logged

bao luo

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 12:05:38 am »

It is the responsibility of the university to either provide suitable accommodation or help you source accommodation.

This is a legal requirement of the SAFEA.

Foreign ESL teachers should not allow employers to renege on this responsibility.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 12:10:06 am by computer_says_no »
Logged

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 01:18:52 am »

There's no really 'hip' neighborhood. Hefei is pretty bland, for the most part. Living near HFUT will be fine. HFUT has a park on campus, and it's pretty close to downtown. You'll probably have to take a taxi or a bus to go to the big shopping malls or bars where expats frequent, but it shouldn't be more than a 15 minute ride (unless traffic is terrible). All of your essential living requirements will be within a short bike ride at the farthest, unless you want western amenities.

So, long story short, I'd suggest living relatively close to HFUT itself. You're not missing out on much by living close to HFUT, and it's easy to get to work.

Also, the school should help you find accommodations. My suggestion would be to tell the school to get you a hotel for a few days, and spend the first few days looking for an apartment. I would NOT recommend getting an apartment sight-unseen and I also wouldn't trust the school to get an apartment for you. (What we would consider a nice apartment isn't necessarily the same as what the Chinese would consider nice).

But, regardless, its the schools responsibility to help you find an apartment.

Logged

ninja8rabbit

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 12:12:49 pm »

Okay, thanks again.  I'll keep the area around HFUT in mind.  The recruitment company said they'd be helping me find an apartment, but I'm listening with caution - not so much that I think they won't do it, but more so that their ideas will be far below what I consider adequate.  My experiences tell me that even if they're 100% legit it's natural to be leery of anything they say until it's actually done and right there in front of me. 
Logged

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2015, 12:39:23 am »

My experiences tell me that even if they're 100% legit it's natural to be leery of anything they say until it's actually done and right there in front of me. 

This is a great philosophy to have, and one it takes people who come to China a long time to figure out.

I would suggest sending them a few apartments from HF.58 for them to get an idea of the quality and amenities you consider adequate.

If they're not willing to wait until you get here to rent an apartment, ask them to send you a few pictures of apartments they're considering renting for you. If you get there and the apartment is different than the pictures they sent you, complain until the get you an apartment you're happy with.

As another general rule: persistence is key. Be forceful but respectful, and you'll typically get what you want. Or at the very least, an acceptable compromise.
Logged

bao luo

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2015, 02:44:49 am »

A recruiter should know what standard of accommodation is suitable for foreigners and have the channels to find such apartments. However, it's also a good idea to scour the internet and present them with places that interest you. Here are some links:

http://hf.ganji.com/fang1/?ca_source=baidusem&ca_name=14758288306&ca_id=904006788&ca_s=sem_baidu&ca_n=14758288306&ca_i=ad

http://hf.zu.anjuke.com/

http://hf.58.com/chuzu/

http://hf.rent.house365.com/district/

http://zu.hf.fang.com/

http://zufang.hfhouse.com/

* Many of listings are posted by real estate brokers (经纪人), who will charge a fee that both the landlord and recruiter will try to offload onto you. When searching rental pages, you want to filter the results to "individuals" (个人), which are all the listings posted by individual landlords.

@ninja8rabbit. Also read your IM.
Logged

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2015, 05:02:56 am »

Oh, of course recruiters know what kind of accommodations are suitable for foreigners. The issue is whether they care about that or want to save the money.

Imagine you're the school, would you rather pay 2,000RMB for a nice place or 1,000RMB and pocket the extra money yourself? Most schools that I know would rather save the money. Not saying it happens all the time, but the school I work at tends to screw the foreigners on decent housing, mostly because they just don't seem to care.

From my experience, it's just easier to find an apartment yourself. Once you find an apartment you like, demand the school either negotiates with the landlord directly or you negotiate a contract with the landlord and demand the school reimburse you for the rent.

It depends on how the housing allowance works exactly.
Logged

Aussie Mike

  • +86 138 667 39353
  • Administrator
  • Long Term Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Love Life, Live Life, Be Happy!
    • View Profile
    • Personal Profile
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 07:00:05 pm »

I believe it's more of an envy thing for many.
These decisions are usually left to people who are on a wage similar to what it costs  just to house us.
They also believe we do not deserve such luxuries and high comparable income.  (low for our standards).

They don't understand that without us their job and employer's business wouldn't exist.

When I have this issue I relate costs of living to the exchange rate.
At 6-1, it equates to 6 weeks living in Australia costs me the same as 1 whole year in China.

When they say, "but it's cheaper to live in China", I reply, Yes, but I have to return for 2 months each year.
Good bye to a year of saving... 

We are here because we want to be here. 

We don't have the family support that is the Chinese Culture.
Logged
My Focus is Australia China Import Export People and Products

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 11:55:27 pm »

I believe it's more of an envy thing for many.
These decisions are usually left to people who are on a wage similar to what it costs  just to house us.
They also believe we do not deserve such luxuries and high comparable income.  (low for our standards).

They don't understand that without us their job and employer's business wouldn't exist.

When I have this issue I relate costs of living to the exchange rate.
At 6-1, it equates to 6 weeks living in Australia costs me the same as 1 whole year in China.

When they say, "but it's cheaper to live in China", I reply, Yes, but I have to return for 2 months each year.
Good bye to a year of saving... 

We are here because we want to be here. 

We don't have the family support that is the Chinese Culture.

I agree. There can be some resentment from Chinese about the wage disparity. The average Chinese salary is a little below 4,000RMB (and that's being generous). Most training schools will start at around 8,000RMB. So, most foreigners make at minimum double what the average Chinese makes, and it easily explodes from there.

This is why I think its important to take your job seriously, and don't make the situation any worse. I mean, imagine you're a Chinese and you see this foreigner who shows up for an hour a day and makes twice as much money as you. You would probably be a little jealous and harbor some animosity. But, if you take the time and effort to get to know your colleagues and take your job seriously, it can go a long way to making the Chinese believe you deserve the special treatment.

I agree that living in China is more difficult without the support of the Chinese Culture, which is why I think its important to try to gain its support. It's not that difficult. Bring some food and candy and share it with the office. Bring a gift or two from your home country to give to your boss. Honestly, little things to show that you care can go a long way to getting the Chinese to help you out when needed.

It's all about guanxi!
Logged

luiz_iniciante

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 02:54:42 am »

To put a slightly different spin things...

I have chatted to a few Chinese friends about the difference in salaries that foriegners and locals gets. My sense is that, by itself, it does not cause much ill-feeling and that most Chinese colleagues generally understand the underlying reasons for it and are more or less indifferent about the matter. I think it only becomes a problem if they have other grievances against the foreigner's presence: he behaves badly or in a culturally insensitive manner, is careless about his relatively light workload, or is quite obviously just a 花瓶 in the company.

I don't see any evidence that the 外办 is trying to get to get back at him by offering him substandard housing. Most foreigners get the same as their Chinese counterparts on slightly better terms (e.g. they usually don't have to share). Essentially, a guaranteed minimum. But I don't think that one can blame his employer for not finding him an appartment comenserable to the one he would have back home. Those locals and forgeigners who do find better housing both have to do it under their steam. In this, the foreigner is at the disadvantage of not having lived here his whole life . But again, I don't really see this as the employers fault or responsibility. 

 
Logged

x0vash0x

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 04:41:43 am »

I agree with everything you said in your first paragraph. That was my point as well. It's not typically an issue itself, but it's easy to make the situation worse.

But again, I don't really see this as the employers fault or responsibility.  

I think it's the employers responsibility to find adequate housing. But, you're right, adequate housing has different meanings to Chinese and Foreigners. But, this can cause misunderstandings. Some foreigners don't understand that there is a difference in 'adequate' housing, so when they get to China its their first culture shock experience.

When some of my colleagues ask to get better housing, the first response by Chinese is 'Why? It has everything you need!' The issue is that many foreigners have come accustomed to certain amenities that many Chinese live without. For example, most apartments lack a mattress. I think most people who come to China kind of just assume that when they are promised a 'Furnished Apartment' it would include a mattress, which is often not the case. When the foreigner finally comes and looks around and asks 'Uh, what about the mattress?' the response is 'Well, if you want one, you can buy it yourself' which immediately flies in the face of the promise of a 'Furnish Apartment'.

My point being: There is a big cultural difference between what Chinese consider a 'Furnished Apartment' and what many of us would consider a 'Furnished Apartment'. The thing is, the foreigner can play ignorance of not knowing what apartments are like in China. But, most of these schools deal with foreigners on a regular basis. You would think that many of them would understand that many would like a microwave and a mattress.

So, it basically is the first clash of cultures that many foreigners experience. Is it the fault of the school? I wouldn't say so. But, it would be nice if the schools would take into consideration the needs of foreigners when they rent housing as well. Perhaps buy a mattress and a microwave. But, why would they?  I think its also the responsibility of the foreigner to explain to the school the things they desire in an apartment.

In the end, the goal is to minimize the clash of cultures, but I don't think many schools care to. Is it a direct result of any kind of hard feelings? I don't think so either. But, imagine you're the Chinese person and this person is demanding all these amenities you don't have, it could rub you the wrong way as well. It could also rub the foreigner the wrong way thinking the school doesn't care to provide decent housing.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 04:47:17 am by x0vash0x »
Logged

bao luo

  • Guest
Re: Where to unpack in Hefei..
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2015, 08:27:07 am »

To clarify, I'm really only considering ESL employers, who are legally required by the SAFEA to provide a minimum standard of accommodation to a foreign teacher. This is condition of the employer's licence. It's obvious why this is necessary: Inexperienced newbies fresh off the plane in China would find it exceedingly difficult to source a place by themselves without support -- in Chinese, liaising with landlords and agents, teeing up inspections, viewing apartments in different locations across an unfamiliar city. In such situations, new foreigners are also susceptible to exploitation. The government deems it the responsibility of the ESL employer to help the teacher find suitable accommodation, and rightly so.

Where things become a little cloudy is what's meant by "suitable". Any reasonable person coming to teach shouldn't expect their first apartment to be plush, but it must meet basic criteria:

Safe solid door with functioning lock; lockable windows; no faulty gas line/bottle in the kitchen; apartment should not be in an exceedingly run-down or remote area; no exposed electrical wiring etc. Most apartments do not have a smoke detector, but it's a good idea to install one yourself. They're not expensive.

Clean Everyone has different standards. Don't be exacting, and expect to do some cleaning yourself or pay a small amount to get a cleaner in. However, the standard of Chinese rental stock can be appallingly squalid, even by local standards (and I've seem em all). You'll know it when you see it, and you shouldn't settle for such places.

Independent Your accommodation must not be dorm-like, shared with other teachers, or have shared bathroom etc. It must be independent and allow you a degree of privacy.

Proximity The apartment can't be miles away from your workplace or public transport.

Basic furnishings working fridge, cook top, hot water system, working faucets, western toilet (not a squat toilet), working lights, table + chairs, bed and mattress, washing machine, TV, and working air-conditioner/heater. No bare concrete floors or walls. If the apartment doesn't have these, you should insist that the landlord get them before you'll sign the lease. In a furnished apartment, it's not mandatory for the landlord to provide a microwave, which are not at all common in Chinese homes, a phone line or Internet. Everything else, like cooking equipment, cutlery, bedding, etc. are really yours to source by yourself.

There are also these pointers from the SAFEA website that we shouldn't expect a new foreigner to contend with:

Quote
What do foreign experts need to pay attention to in renting housing?
(safea.gov.cn)
Updated: 2014-05-19

A foreign expert can get the employer to rent housing for them or they can go through a property agent to look for housing. Under no condition should they rent housing in the following way:
1. Renting from someone without proof of ownership.
2. Housing that has been sealed off or is limited by the justice department or administrators.
3. Housing with a joint house owner who has not given their approval.
4. Housing whose ownership is in dispute.
5. Housing in a building that has been deemed illegal.
6. Housing that fails to meet safety standards.
7. Mortgaged houses without approval by creditors.
8. Housing that does not comply with public security, environmental protection, or hygiene regulations.
9. Housing that cannot be rented according to local laws and regulations.

I know it's pretty time consuming for HR staff to find reasonable apartments with all of the above and within a reasonable distance of the workplace. I do sympathize with them to some extent because I've sourced my own rentals and know that it involves a lot of running around and filtering out a unsuitable places. One advantage of HR dealing with accommodation for you is that they're much tougher at negotiating rent. However, ultimately, the best solution over time is to take full control of finding your own accommodation and don't rely on your employer at all. Do this by familiarizing yourself with the real-estate websites above and either liaising with landlords yourself (if you're good at Chinese) or get a reliable Chinese friend or contact to help you deal with them directly.

On the issue of pay differential, I agree with luiz_iniciante.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:06:09 am by computer_says_no »
Logged

Aussie Mike

  • +86 138 667 39353
  • Administrator
  • Long Term Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Love Life, Live Life, Be Happy!
    • View Profile
    • Personal Profile
Keys
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 10:21:42 am »

When you rent yourself, your employer doesn't have the keys.
Logged
My Focus is Australia China Import Export People and Products
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up