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Author Topic: Libya,The African Question  (Read 4653 times)
Hills
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« on: March 22, 2011, 05:24:23 PM »

A question of legitimacy or superiority?Neo-colonialism,worst than annexation arena cos this time they  came in with missiles and nuclear ammunition to neutralize or better,if possible, eliminate the African Man.
Over looked the Ivory Coast,Sudan inhumane transgressions but quickly moved into Libya...YEAH RIGHT...go save the Libyans,the oil guys
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 05:31:54 PM by Hills » Logged
Aussie Mike
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 06:44:59 PM »

In this case I do believe it is to be seen as a humanitarian issue.  Huh
The UN in particular emphasises "The protection of civilians".

Gadaffi has been a problem for the nation for more than 40 years.

The humanitarian issues are global issues, the politics however should always be an internal issue for the people.
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Hills
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 11:05:51 PM »

Humanitarian issues with specific targets u mean..How can you explain the stay and watch move on Ivory Coast compared to the quick military assault on libya..How different are those two peoples,well ONE HAS GOT OIL.The UN continues to blow its cover..Sooner or later,it will be the architect of its own demise .

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kaibo 开 博
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 11:10:25 AM »

From Libyaonline.com

http://www.libyaonline.com/business/pages.php

Libya’s economy is heavily reliant on oil exports.
Economic growth in Libya is dependent on the hydrocarbon industry.
Since the United Nations and the United States lifted sanctions over Libya in 2003 and 2004, respectively, oil majors have stepped up exploration efforts for oil and natural gas in the country.
Libya, a member of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), holds the largest proven oil reserves in Africa .
Libya remains "highly unexplored" … only around 25 percent of Libya is covered by exploration agreements with oil companies.
The under-exploration of Libya reflects the impact of former sanctions and also stringent fiscal terms imposed by Libya on foreign oil companies.
Future foreign investment into the oil sector is likely
NOC’s  [Libyan state owned company] production goals depend on its ability to finance its share of development costs.
Libya is considered a highly attractive oil province due to its low cost of oil recovery (as low as $1 per barrel at some fields), the high quality of its oil, and its proximity to European markets.
The majority of Libyan oil exports are sold to European countries

Major companies with interests in Libya are strongly associated with Britain, France, Italy, USA, Norway, Spain, Germany, Austria, South Korean conglomerates, China etc.

United States-based Colony Capital reached an agreement to take over 65 percent of Tamoil, while the Libyan government will retain 35 percent. Libya will continue to control Tamoil Africa
2003 - the UN Security Council officially lifted its sanctions over Libya
2004 - United States … White House issued a press release stating that: “U.S. companies will be able to buy or invest in Libyan oil and products.
2004 - President Bush signed Executive Order … lifting U.S. sanctions against Libya and opening U.S. access tu Libya’s oil reserves
Libyan exploration licenses are determined largely based on how high a share of production a company is willing to offer state-owned NOC.
Companies offering NOC the greatest share of profits are likely to win.
Oilfield developers initially bear 100 percent of costs (exploration, appraisal, training) for a minimum of 5 years, while NOC retains exclusive ownership.

This is without looking at gas reserves which is a whole new ball game. Egypt has a joint venture agreement to pipe gas from Egypt to Europe [Italy] via Libya's pipeline. The current & future investments in LPG/LNG are strategically important to major companies as well.

Royal Dutch Shell, a multinational oil company ("oil major") of Anglo Dutch origins, is amongst the largest oil companies in the world.
2005 - Shell agreed to a finalise a deal with NOC to develop Libyan oil and gas resources

I will leave this report in the hands of those who want to judge for themselves what is occurring in Nth Africa & the Mid-East. More info will be laid to bare that clearly resembles the takeover of more oil & gas reserves by Anglo-US-NATO based strategists.
 
My opinion is that, this has been a strategic plan in the making as some major players have refused to re-sign existing contracts with NOC over preceding months. NOC will be progressively dissolved or restructured and a ''puppet government'' will takeover Libya. China  explorers and downstream processors will be somewhat locked out and European dependence on Russia to provide future energy requirements will be somewhat eased. Italy needs to bolster the Meditteranean presence into Europe.

Putin is one smart cookie because he reportedly severed ties with the ''banksters'' when he was the President and got Russia  out of debt through energy sales to Europe and China.

It is also reported that Sarkozy needed to bolster his flailing ratings in the lead-up to re-election & this move will sringboard western domination across North Africa. Italy is in the red; Germany wants what the other countries won't sign under current contracts with NOC, EU is under duress of Sovereign Debt Crisis etc. There are many valid reasons why this play is of benefit to Anglo-US-EU interests.

Look at it objectively;
Germany & France want to both play their own games as far as the EU goes
Sarkozy naturally sides in with the power-play for vested interests.
Italy can gain perhaps the geatest economic & strategic benefit from Libyan energy
Germany can outbid most players in Europe to win stakes under current conditions -- hence the passive reaction to change
China can outbid them all if rule changes are not made
Anglo-US imperialists take what they want and don't have to pay for it so it's all hands on deck to liquidate & assimilate Libyan assets.

Everyone was taken back that a ''no-fly'' zone meant bowling them over but it is a very good play really to restore some balance back in the system.

''Oil is wealth & wealth is Power'' [quote Kaibo]

I rest my case your honour...however, there will be more to come.

Welcome back Hills.

It is nice to get someone who is concerned enough to joust about what we see as another potential nail in the  coffin. Humanism will never solve the international problems when corrupt powers set the stage to feather their own nests.


He who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven must humble himself as [this] a little child. In history, there are no great men, just humble men who were greatly used by God. It is such a pity a man like Gaddafi did not bow humbly before his greatness was revealed as little more than folly-- he will retire with no glory but the glory of his loyal subjects.

Solomon said, ''...all is vanity...''

I say, even with all the greatness of human intelligence & endeavour, we still know very little because the truth we claim to possess is held in the vanity of our minds!

Remember Schultz in Hogans Heroes ... he said time and again ...''I know nothing!"

What a wise man he was!

Selah!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:45:04 PM by kaibo 开 博 » Logged

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Hills
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 03:43:11 PM »

Yeah Kaibo,the report is explicit and backed up with facts.Like you said,the judgment depends on our individual alienations and doctrines.We get too passive on real issues but pop up when porn comes up,so lady gaga can be queen. Wink
Well who got the oil,got the power,Humanity is a dead father
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 05:23:40 PM by Hills » Logged
Aussie Mike
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 06:59:09 PM »

It's not 'who's got the oil' rather, 'who's got control of the oil'.
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Hills
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 08:08:54 PM »

Thus the guy WHO GOT THE OIL is just the whore
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Andy72
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 08:48:03 AM »

Libya "humanitarian" I-F-UK-USA intervention [it is a real unwanted casualty that the spelling of the nation initials look disturbingly like i want to do something really bad to USA....  Grin ] looks very much like the Kuwait and it is one of the problem they have now to find who is actually leading this "coalition".. NATO or UN??

Apart from this, I want to add that until now the only 2 countries receiving people running from Libya are Malta and Italy.. and apart from the Italian interest (gas/oil) and the Italian f**ked up presidency (Berlusconi), the other main reason that Italy took time to support the UE voice against Gheddafi was we knew the influx of people from that area would hit mainly our country and Europe would not support us in any way!

So I agree actually with Hills: nobody intervened in SUDAN in the past 30-40 years.. and that's probably one of the most desperate reality in the world.. but.. no oil there..

if the intervention was humanitarian, why i do not read anyway offers from F-UK-USA to take some of the humanitarian weight of desperation that is stranding daily on Italian coasts? In Lampedusa we have more Libyan people (and Egyptian saying they are from Lybia and more) than Italian resident! Why NATO/UN/UE is doing nothing about this?
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Hills
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 03:27:26 PM »

The so called International coalition should ve known better.They re in a course without a mission.Oust Ghadaffi or deter his strikes against civil rebels???These two to the best of my knowledge are just different sides of same coin..Now the UN is stressing like Mike said The protection of civilians but let the devil Ghaddafi Live On,what sense does that make,its a frustrated angle,

NATO or UN state your mission clearly,two wrongs don't make a right
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 03:55:05 PM by Hills » Logged
Andy72
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 04:33:00 PM »

i think they are all underestimating Ghaddafi..

we, Italians in general, know that he is CRAZY!
i will always remember my first and only visit to Florence in high school, where one evening we were all in the hotel lobby watching the news of the 2 scud rockets that just exploded on Lampedusa beach.. a show of that crazy monkey of so-called leader for impress and scare europe/italy.. letting us know he can reach at least our island..

easy for USA-UK-F to start a war, without any plan for refugee and very little tangible risks..

UN and NATO now they are doing the opposite game: they do NOT want the leadership in this f**ked up mission.. let's see who will be more "smart" letting the other getting the "honor"..

and today 400 more arrived in Lampedusa..
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kaibo 开 博
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 03:56:03 AM »

In my opinion Italy has most to gain here -- Europe needs a bailout from Muslim dominated oil control; African states are largely run by corrupt dictators; WWI had European control all mapped out in Africa; the UN along with China wants a one-Africa policy -- the west is damn right to liberate the oil from the religious domination it is under but has the moral responsibility to set the people free into a democracy or socialist system governed by angels of the living Elohim.

Blame the UN and humanitarian international laws for Italy's plight Andy -- can't refuse a refugee until they are proven to not be one -- Australia is being raped by refugees right now and the goody two shoes support the illegitimate wannabe Australians. I say send them back to whence they came!
Send the Middle East back to the Ottoman Turks as well because WWI & WWII seems to have been in vain -- our forefathers died to deliver this mess -- what for? -- they have now invaded us and the banksters still permissively appoint them to rule in egotistic madness whilst they -- the banksters -- rape their assets to reduce the free to the same level as the bond-slaves subjected under the mad rulers power?
As for Iraqi, Libyan, or any other so called refugees -- products of UN intervention like we are seeing now -- let the UN create a haven in North Africa in a new state and house them all there. Dumping them on western doorsteps has gone on for too long.

Invite the Russians and Chinese in with the SCO and establish a new frontier to stand alogside NATO forces & wipe all the smirky dictators off the planet --then divide the spoils to create something beautiful -- there is enough land in One-Africa to create a paradise if the smirky dickheads leading western powers would share with honesty and integrity by closing the mouths of the lions we all feed.
Chinese have surpluses but Europe is on the brink so China should be helping us control the spoils to enact more productive JV outcomes so that the children can be fed across Africa -- this shit has to stop -- getting the oil is one thing but finding good leaders who will share is near impossible. They -- the lions -- sold the west into slavery and usury with banksters -- revolution is the only answer for the west now. We need our own Chaiman Mao to say NO to the feds then enforce unity multilaterally without a cold war to suck us into deeper submission. 
We have our own refugees in western dominions -- sons and daughters of taxpayers who can't afford prices of houses -- also China is in the UN and is a foundation member; they do not accept refugees so back up the draft & follow that example. They come in and get all the red carpet, subsidised housing, free education; & then gratuitiously change our political culture to suit their religion! Our freedom under the Abrahamic covenant got hijacked so we need to get back to truth and balance the books. The illegitimate NWO knows this and it is their way to level western society and relegate us to third world status. We are well on the way to that status now -- our grandfathers died for nothing -- USA is broke, UK is broke, EU is broke -- take the oil & gas and plant a new garden of eden in Africa and the Middle East & divide the spoils with China and Russia, & our Muslim brothers who truly seek peace and harmony; but then use the profit to blow the illegitimate NWO out of the water; sink the London Crown; bankrupt the Aryanists -- who are no longer judged by the colour of their skin but by the size of their bankrolls -- return to a gold standard; liberate the real Jews from the crazed diaspora -- etc.  Whatever it takes; the world needs a revolution for sure but to be successful it would have to assasinate all the puppet government designers first. Liberate the west -- Russia has bank-rolled the feds these days, China is setting the pace, Brazil is on the road thanks to an honest socialist [what a hero and he was not even educated in a uni -- who needs educated leaders that are corrupted with the knowledge that play into an economic system that has failed us -- all we need are true men with good hearts to feed the children], India is doing fine since they were liberated from the London Crown, Germany is sitting pretty; so give them some military clout and find another charismatic leader who can steer inter-nationalism in the right direction this time.
Oh and I add, brand every cult religion just as they are and that includes the hail Mary Papal cultists -- take China's lead & drive the Falun Gong types & Dalai Lama's to the wall along with all the ''not free'' freemasons [ who charge us too much for stones to build houses with], satanists, all cultists etc -- humanist ''freedom of religion'' led by blind puppets called prophets [profits] in societies is outdated -- it is time for 2012 to clean up the mess before the occultists stage a fake alien invasion to lead us further toward the abyss.
Blind leaders of the blind -- anyone got a torch? Oh yeah, just buy a few more patriot or cruise missiles to light our path -- then we can see who the enemy really are -- following that, when we have their toys, we will give them to the nice fat man down the road who works for the foreign bank -- great plan boys -- that will never set Libyan's free!

Above all ladies, we need truth -- the whole truth so help us God -- because this whole system has become one great spinning top with a wobble that has knocked the axis too far off course -- there is no address to bring it all back online without 2012 -- even if it takes until 2088 -- change has to come. When planet X comes by next year I plan on throwing a lassoo around it and hitching a ride to another solar system because this one is clearly dated.
You reckon the problems are gonna be fixed? Bullshit ladies, the problems are just beginning--welcome to the tribulation--saddle up your UFO flying machines and follow the rider on the white horse with hair as white as snow and eyes as flames of fire -- I'm on my way from misery to happiness aha! aha! -- China has been great and are fantastic idealists and romanticists but they woke up too late to save the planet -- a new giant is just arising and it is called ''fate - enter the dragon's tail''

Apart from that, thanks for the input Andy me old mate -- miss your devious smile these days -- let me know when your flying ship is ready and we can get a convoy started to to hitch-hike across the galaxy.

Aldous Huxley was a visionary -- it is a Brave New World -- good luck planet citizens!

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Andy72
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 09:59:49 AM »

miss you too man..

we must meet and i love the Brave new world Huxley's visionary book..

great post by the way!

let me know when you go out.. i promise to come up north to the city from my farmland and meet u for a couple of beers.. or more!!
 Grin
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kaibo 开 博
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 01:16:39 AM »

May I suggest this site for some very interesting perspectives.

See: The "Demonization" of Muslims and the Battle for Oil
by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky [University of Ottawa]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4347

I do not support all of his views but one can glean some interesting info. He demonizes the USA and the West but that is extreme bias perhaps. Besides that, the French are more major players currently and in history than they might appear. With Sarkozy at the helm -- a Jew who converted to Catholicism -- he plays very much into left field in this current conflict.

In addition to that, prior personal views about the dismantling of the Libyan state controlled oil company NOC has commenced it seems. It is reported that, Qatar has agreed to market oil from East Libya. The question is, will they honour existing contracts or will other players takeover the lions share?

This is perhaps the ''divide and conquer'' policy as seen throughout history but then it is also survival of European interests. Just how do you judge this?

If it plays exclusively into Anglo-US companies then it is not multilaterally favourable; if it plays into all 28 NATO countries interests; that is also controversial and will ultimately be judged. The objective reasoning of the USA administration has stated -- to put a ''humanitarian face on the UN resolution --the USA will play a supporting role to NATO's command.

The best scenario is if it plays into the honouring of contracts --11% of PRCs CNPC comes from NPC Libya -- through a restructured NOC; with wealth distribution going to infrastructure, downstream industries, jobs creation and social welfare benefits of the Libyan people, it is good.

It is so complex to just how it is all structured, and as a result of that the ''Libyan question'' -- put forth by Mr Hills -- is beyond the realms of just scratching the surface.


Libya is only a small play in the relative context of the overall plays in our kosmos.

Who do you believe?

In the context of this world, who can you believe!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:36:18 AM by kaibo 开 博 » Logged

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Hills
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 05:50:49 PM »

On the waiting List For Libya

 The current chaos in Libya may end up in different ways;

I) Colonel Muammar Gaddafi may end up sharing power with the rebels

 ii) Libya may as well end up being a divided country into a rebel held and government controlled areas

iii) The country may be engaged in a long civil war as is the case in Somalia

iv) Some forces may come up with the suggestion that the country be divided as some people futilely suggested for Cote D Ivoire.

v) The government of Gaddafi may end up capitulating or being topple as the current government of Cote D’Ivoire after bogus elections in which the UN condones fraud just as they did in Afghanistan.

Lets watch
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Andy72
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 06:43:28 PM »

Hills,

(I) is not acceptable! US and the "coalition" will never allow that.. hopefully.. that man is crazy!

and the others are quite dark forecasts..

 i still believe and hope the colonel will find his way to some other country (Ethiopa offered hospitality).. and Libya will ont end up as.. Afghanistan or Iraq after american occupation..

let's see..
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